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Ethereum, A Classic Tale of Two Chains

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I just wanted to elaborate on a few things that have been said on Twitter. Here is a link orgy from the latest Ethereum fiasco:

Checkout Ethereum Classic Subreddit:

Whale Panda explains:

theDAO Terms:

Vitalik Supports Hard Fork:

V explains his position on the fork:

In 2015 Vitalik explains a consortium:

Vitalik updates the Ethereum Wiki to include: Consortium Chain Development

See some of the commits:

Ethereum Inventor: We Got ‘Very Lucky’ In Gamble to Save $56M From Hacker

Christoph Jentzsch: What an accomplishment!
“Although some do question the analogy “code is law”. I do not. We just found out that we have a supreme court, the community!”

Bitfinex Announcement:

V Buterin:
“Thanks for your continued support of the Ethereum ecosystem and community, despite your earlier (totally understandable and reasonable) stance in opposition to the fork. Look forward to continuing to work together to build great technology.”

Yep, good response. My personal position is that bitcoin’s social contract was ambiguous (some people clearly thought 1-mb-at-all-costs was part of it

V, Personal statement regarding the fork:

Options in the hard fork, V:

“@junseth I will provide my opinion in the way that @Truthcoin would approve of: I have been buying DAO tokens since the security news”

Erik and Shapeshift considering adding ETC:

Ethereum Developer Gavin Wood adding support for ETC

Charlie Lee (founder for Litecoin, Engineer at Coinbase:
I heard this in chat: ETC stands for Execute The Code and ETH stands for Execute The Heist. I can’t say I disagree. 😀

Zsolt Felföldi, Ethereum Developer: A Tale Of Two Chains

“but let’s make it clear that we (the Ethereum developers) have never abandoned it. We never forked the chain. We have implemented a switch in our client to give users a choice to fork if they want to and that’s all.”

Leaked chatroom document:

34 Comments on Ethereum, A Classic Tale of Two Chains

    • Trader/Blogger/Analyst :)… I can start using them randomly if you like
      cause all do not fit on screen… please pick one for next time

    • +Tone Vays
      “all do not fit on the screen”
      they just did.
      “please pick one for next time”
      yes father

  1. You also said that ETC essentially has a huge bug bounty on it. This isn’t
    exactly true because they are piggybacking off of ETH and their
    development, at least in the short term. This could go any way. Long
    popcorn.

  2. Tone thanx for making this doubling / split clear. This clarifies how much
    fraudulent activity could / most likely be going on with the involvement of
    Etherium insiders.

    • “but you comparing Ether ICO to a Facebook IPO might be the stupidest thing
      I have read on the internet”

      The scale and quality of the product might be different, but the moral
      principle, which I understand he was talking about, is essentially the
      same. Developers offer tokens, ‘shares’, whatever, of a network for sale
      and people may freely buy or abstain from buying said tokens. No coercion
      or deception = no moral violation. Yes regulators may feel differently
      about it but we surely know better than to take regulators’ viewpoints as a
      yardstick of what constitutes sound morality.

      “When these laws arrive I expect them to arrive Retroactively”

      I think that’s highly unlikely, given the absurdity of prosecuting someone
      for violating laws that didn’t exist at the time. Then again, we know what
      green-eyed and opportunistic little knaves government bureaucrats can be.
      Just like any mafia goon, they see someone on their turf turning profit
      without ‘kickin’ up’ and soon enough they’ll find a reason to send some
      intimidating guys to knock on a few doors.

    • no, the moral principle is completely different. pre-IPO offers go out to
      “Qualified” investors, those who have lots of money and fully understand
      the risk involved. These people have been in a way per-approved to take on
      those risks. ICO’s go in the opposite direction, their entire success
      depends on “unqualified” investors. I understand that many of those
      investors have gotten rich an a prior Scam coin or Bitcoin (& things like
      Litecoin cause that one is also not a scam coin to me) but it does not make
      them qualified investors…. There is also 0 obligation for those
      collecting value for their Pre-Sale ICO from simply running away with the
      money (like Sheeps market place or cryptsy did – yes i know they did not
      tokenize but they did not even have to to get your value )

    • It seems that you approach this from a regulatory point of view, while I
      look at it from my own (libertarian) moral stance. The original question
      was on IPOs and ICOs, rather than pre-IPOs/ICOs, but it’s still an
      interesting point to consider. The company sells shares to ‘qualified’
      investors, institutions or brokerage companies, who then sell their shares
      to the public at the IPO. So why is it OK to sell to ‘unqualified’
      investors at the IPO and not the pre-IPO? The way I see it, the pre-IPO
      allows these ‘qualified’ investors to buy up shares on the cheap and before
      everyone else. They then sell the shares on the IPO at inflated prices when
      ‘unqualified’ investors are permitted to buy and the mob piles in. The
      ‘pre-IPO’ just allows a select few to buy up shares cheap and rake in
      profits when they sell those shares to the ‘unqualified’ investors. I can’t
      help but notice that a fair amount of regulation aimed at ‘protecting
      people’ ends up making a select few very rich. Another case I read about
      recently was when a trader was jailed for ‘spoofing’ markets essentially
      because it screwed with the HFT algorithms of big firms. Anyway, on this
      understanding of pre-IPOs, I don’t see how they’re somehow any better
      morally than ICOs or pre-ICOs, provided that in each case there is no
      coercion or deception involved.

      “There is also 0 obligation for those collecting value for their Pre-Sale
      ICO from simply running away with the money ”

      For cases like this I included the caveat of ‘no coercion or deception.”

    • Hi, I don’t want to wade into the broader debate going on here because I’ll
      quickly be out of my depth, but I thought I’d chime in to clarify the
      question on pre-IPO investors. The US law treats this issue differently
      from laws in Europe/Asia. The following will just focus on Europe/Asia, as
      in the US you’re only allowed to have preliminary discussions with
      ‘qualified’ investors to gauge their interest in your offering.
      European/Asian countries permit a bit more. However, what happens in these
      IPOs isn’t an actual sale of shares before the public offering date
      (“Closing”), it is a pre-Closing commitment made by the qualified investors
      to purchase shares at the Closing at the offering price. To be clear, these
      investors buy AT THE SAME PRICE that mom & pop will buy in the IPO, they
      just make a contractual commitment to buy at an earlier stage (they take on
      some price/execution risk for doing so). These persons/institutions are
      called cornerstone investors (or anchor investors, depending on the
      jurisdiction).

      What are the incentives for the cornerstone taking this risk here? First
      it’s important to remember that, in an IPO, a company registers a finite
      amount of shares to be sold in the IPO. It’s not like you go into an IPO
      having no known upper limit to the amount of shares being sold. I’m just
      getting into the blockchain community, so I’m not certain if or how an
      ‘ICO’ is different in this respect.

      After the SEC approves their registration statement, the Company is pretty
      much locked into selling that amount of shares. In practice, everyone
      working on the deal pretty much knows the amount of shares for a month or
      so before it’s ‘final’.
      – an investor will be willing to take on the risk of being a cornerstone if
      they want certainty that they’re going to be a part of the IPO (prestige of
      their name associated with company, etc.). If they weren’t a cornerstone,
      it’s possible they wouldn’t have a seat at the table.
      – an investor will be willing to take on the risk of being a cornerstone if
      they want to build a relationship with the Company for future business.
      Again, they’re paying the same price mom & pop are, so there isn’t anything
      untoward about this motivation.
      – a Company is obviously okay with this process. Cornerstones are typically
      disclosed in the prospectus, and so having them builds momentum for your
      offering. It also guarantees that X amount of shares will be sold, because
      the cornerstones have made a pre-Closing commitment to take X.

      I will say that Tone Vays understanding is pretty much on the right track
      when it comes to the ‘qualified’ investor point in IPOs. The SEC typically
      treats ‘qualified institutional buyers’ and ‘accredited investors’
      (Institutional investors) differently than they treat mom & pop (retail)
      investors. The SEC has standards and definitions that a party must meet to
      be considered Institutional. None of this framework really exists (to my
      knowledge) in the blockchain setup of an ICO. Perhaps conditions could be
      worked into the code to have people make attestations as to how savvy they
      are before they invest, but here I am getting out of my depth.

      Source: a capital markets lawyer (disclaimer: none of the above is legal
      advice, yadda yadda) very interested in this new space.

      Hope this was informative!

    • thank you for your detailed explanation Dar. I do not know the fine details
      myself but i’ve been a witness to enough IPO’s and pre-IPO’s in my life to
      understand it in laymen’s terms and ICO’s are NOTHING like that… it’s
      only those that have very little knowledge of financial markets attempt to
      treat the two as equals.

  3. Chris- Have you tried intermittent fasting (20+ hours fasting a day) or a
    super high fat (Like all coconut oil) zero carb diet?

    • I somewhat agree, when fasting though, eat an early dinner friday night and
      then sleep in on saturday and delay your lunch… you can easily get 16-20
      hours in while not even realizing… I was on the Paleo diet for about 1.5
      yrs (before i got into bitcoin, so just like my Girlfriend, that ended
      quickly). it’s an amazing diet/lifestyle, I was even thinking clearer and
      more focused within weeks…. Lots of Coconut everything on that one… not
      saying it will solve your problems but Palea seems to be very good for many
      many health issues.

  4. “F–ked” Ethereum holders should just sell all of it and turn them into
    Bitcoin. Immutability of the code is compromised. What is done is done. You
    cannot unscramble the scrambled egg. Classic is fine, but will it stick to
    principle of the decentralized “immutable” code?!

    • of cousre their is plenty of coins that have done that when they first hit
      the market. But its not supported by anything its going to fall apart any
      day. Ethereum is at a discount get it and save it. All the core developers
      are only working ethereum they have nothing to do with classic.

    • well i bought a 1000 on the pull back at around $1.60 and sold them around
      $2.40 today, that’s easy money.

    • +Chris Moore Dr Glidden addresses this point in his recent youtube video.

      There is a 5 year timeline in which many survive the 5 years but only just,
      amf not for longer , therefore they are in the successful camp.

      Look it up.

    • I’m not sure why you’re telling me about this guy. Is it in some way
      related to Chris and his illness?

    • Why don’t you see if you can put a paragraph together than communicates
      some information? As things stand I have no idea what you are getting at.

    • +Chris Moore Oh sorry.

      Dr Glidden recommends we take all 90 minerals and vitamins everyday because
      the food is deficient of them.

      My and my family’s health has improved greatly.

      There are also 3 books on amazon called ‘the miracle of MSM, the miracle of
      magnesium’ and ‘i took large amounts of D3 & K2 for a year’.

      Your friend will be able to reverse the health issue he has.

      Watch Dr Glidden on youtube.

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